Repair or replace (rotten dog power supply board)

[Koops]

My data east Jurassic park suddenly stopped working on Christmas Day.

 

After reseating all connectors, checking for burns, checking fuses I found that a "1/2" amp fuse was out.

 

 

The fuse itself was a 1amp but I replaced it with what was written on the board itself. My understanding was that I was doing the right thing (please correct me if not!!).

 

I crossed fingers and turned the machine on again.

 

A big spark jumped from around the power supply area. Quickly switched the machine off and unplugged it.

 

Pulled all cables from both the ppb and power supply boards.

 

I noticed a slight browning of pin 9 on the cn8x9 connector (labelled fuses).

 

Also saw this

 

 

 

That is from u101.

 

I found some old pinside threads that discuss this regulator component on the rottendog boards.

 

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/data-east-speaker-noise-ideas-for-a-cure/page/3#post-507094

 

So my question.

 

Is it better to get someone like @Skybeaux to repair this (with better regulators) OR just buy one of those xpin ones (assuming I could get one!).

 

I'd been meaning to strip all my de machines boards out and have them serviced anyway so I'm probably answering my own question.

 

 

 

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Edited January 31, 2018 by Koops

[Autosteve]

First I'd be checking where that pin 9 wire goes. It may just be heat related but it might be a sign of something upstream pulling to much power that caused the part to blow on the board.

 

It's up to you whether you feel comfortable at performing your own board repairs so ignore this if that is the case.

 

The burn mark on the back board indicates the board may have been flexed either by your board mounts being out of alignment and when tightened making the clearance between the metal backbox ground and the regulator leg to close allowing the power to arc across the smaller gap.

 

It could also be the leg of the regulator wasn't trimmed flush enough to the board the last time the reg was changed.

 

The board is a Data East and they were also known to flex with age all on there own. Something to do with the full ground plan mesh on the back of the boards. It may be time to attach a non conductive spacer in the middle of the board to hold it away.

 

Check the bridge that powers the regulator and make sure no diodes are blown in it and threw AC into the regulator.

 

Check the caps that smooth the rectified DC coming out of bridge for signs of damage.

 

Go to the regulator and check to see if it was actually a short or whether the arcing marks weren't a result of the power jumping from a reg pin across to the board

 

If it was clean it up, resolder if necessary. You don't want power having to jump from the pin to the track on the board...(happens a lot), and also check the pin isn't sticking any more than about 1mm proud of the board.

 

If it is cut it down so it is only about 1mm.

 

Stick a suitable non conducting piece of material directly over the burn mark. It would ideally be about 100 X 100mm. You want it to be about 3mm thick that can be stuck to the metal backing, thin plywood is perfect but plastic is also ideal. It needs to be hard enough so no amount of vibration can allow that pin "drill through it" to get to close ever again.

 

Replace the board but leave the output plugs disconnected.

 

Put in another fuse that blew, under rated doesn't matter just not over rated and power the machine up.

 

The machine won't fully boot up because you have the power leads off but if the fuse blows violently, ( glows bright orange), you have an issue with your power supply board.

 

If it doesn't blow, turn it off and plug on one of the power connectors and retry. If the fuse blows violently, you have a short on one of those wires or there devices they power.

 

If it doesn't blow, plug in the remaining power connector and retry.

 

If the fuse at any time blows gently, ( over more than 2 seconds), I would suspect you have an under rated fuse as you thought.

 

These are common problems that happened on all Data East power supply boards and this is the process I used to fix them on site.

 

Like I said originally, if you don't know what you are comfortable doing or are not equipped to do these tests and repairs, don't.

Send the board away to someone to fix it properly but be aware, if you do have a problem that isn't on the power supply board, it will be in the wiring or the playfield, it doesn't matter how good the board tech is, you'll blow stuff up again.....

Pinched wires where the playfield folds or the playfield prop through the playfield wiring harness are common on Data East machines and are a good place to start looking for shorts.

 

Good luck.

[Rich]

but it was working fine up until Christmas day? were you playing it then it died or did it die when you turned it on?

had the pin been moved?

yeah I'm probably not really helping here but that board looks like it has had a lot of work done by the amount of solder flux visible.

a newish board that's clean doesn't need a high flux solder.

the raised metal mounts don't look tall enough IMO in relation the legs on the back of the circuit board which is a concern.

as @Autosteve has mentioned, getting it repaired then if it isn't the board at fault your back to square one.

No doubt Ken will make the board tip top but try to work out why the fuse blew in the first place.

Are you replacing the fuse with the correct speed rating? Like you aren't putting in a fast blow in place of a slow blow?

I am assuming the fuse blew again......maybe replace the fuse and don't mount the board, leave it free from touching anything else and as suggested add one edge connector at a time and see how you go.

It may well be a bridge which I thought the fuse would protect if it shorted internally and this might be an easy fix for you.

[Koops]

Repair or replace (rotten dog power supply board)

 

Lots to read through so thanks guys.

 

New fuse didn't blow (removed from holder and checked).

 

I bought all variations of slo blow fuses. I actually used a lower rated fuse than the one I removed BUT the one that was documented to be used on the board itself. 0.5amp sloblow.

 

I wasn't playing at the time (a guest for Christmas was playing and I wasn't in the room at the time).

 

 

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Edited January 31, 2018 by Koops

[Homepin]

Do you have the original board that maybe you could have repaired and refit it to the machine?

 

I always advocate using a repaired original before a replacement - even though I make replacement pinball boards (not this one.....yet).

[Koops]

Repair or replace (rotten dog power supply board)

 

Do you have the original board that maybe you could have repaired and refit it to the machine?

 

I always advocate using a repaired original before a replacement - even though I make replacement pinball boards (not this one.....yet).

 

I don't have the original as this machine came with this rottendog board.

 

 

I could swap one for either my Star Wars or guns and roses (both have original de boards) but I'd rather not risk having another component from a working machine break if it is something else causing the issue.

 

 

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[Skybeaux]

Unfortunately all the boards that rottondog make that have anything to do with high voltage are absolute rubbish.

I've seen several times where the voltages go out of spec as high as 140+ volts and damage displays.

People think at first it's working great and their display is nice and bright but eventually something gives.

Nothing can be done for it , it's just a shit design.....that's why they are cheap to buy.

Best off trying to find an original , i can't comment on the xpin ones as i haven't used one.....i did see one made by Gulf pinball the other week and noticed it at least used the proper Mje15030/1 high voltage transistors but again can't really comment on it's longevity.

[Koops]

Thanks.

 

I'd read similar on pinside so it's good

to hear from someone on aa with their erxperiences.

 

I've put out some requests to find both pinscore and xpin replacements and both are hard to come by in Aus.

 

I still need to see if I can diagnose the root cause before replacing it.

 

 

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[AtariTam]

Unfortunately all the boards that rottondog make that have anything to do with high voltage are absolute rubbish.

I've seen several times where the voltages go out of spec as high as 140+ volts and damage displays.

People think at first it's working great and their display is nice and bright but eventually something gives.

Nothing can be done for it , it's just a shit design.....that's why they are cheap to buy.

Best off trying to find an original , i can't comment on the xpin ones as i haven't used one.....i did see one made by Gulf pinball the other week and noticed it at least used the proper Mje15030/1 high voltage transistors but again can't really comment on it's longevity.

 

Would this be the same for a Bally CFTBL as well? The one I picked up had a rottondog board in it & had been having issues with it resetting. And the power dropping out and not working again till I disconnect & reconnect j211 via the data cable

 

 

 

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[Ballypinball]

We should have the data east power supplies xpin

 

All the rottendog stuff is crap